Tips on Cloning?

I have 3 plants that are 4 weeks old (Grapefruit Krush) that I grew from seed.  Shown below, they are 8 inches, 5.5 inches and 6 inches respectivley.  I plan to flower them at around 12 inches … a couple weeks from now.  I am trying to pick the best candidate for a mother, but I am not sure what I should be looking for.  All 3 are quite different … one has shot up about 2 inches above the other two (top left), but has far fewer and smaller leaves growing from the stem-branch nodes.  The node leaves on the next smaller one are similar in size and amount (bottom), but the smallest one has much bigger and more of them (top right).  This might be a dumb question, but these leaves are important when it comes to flowering correct?  My room has height issues, so 24 inches is as tall as they can get at full bloom so the stouter 2 plants seem a better option.  I am leaning towards the smallest one with the bushiest stem (top right).  I’d love feedback.

My other question is what do I cut?  I have seen it on you tube before, and understand what to do once I have the cutting, but when I look at my plants, I am not sure what to cut.  Do I just cut one of those big leaves off?  Will taking four clones from one plant affect it’s flowering?  Any advice would be very appreciated.

 

Plant4_4weeks2 Plant5_4weeks1-278x300

 

Edited Feb 6, 2012:

I have one week to figure this cloning thing out, specifically what to cut.  The two pics below are “what I think I need to cut”.  The second pic is the branch that comes out where the lowest fan leaf meets the stem.  Hoping someone can confirm.  My worry is that each plant only has 6 of these and removing 4 seems  like it would leave the plant bare.  Especially becasue it seems to me (I really have no idea, lol) that these will be bud bearing branches if left on the plant.  Do I have the right idea here?  Is it okay to take a clone so low on the plant? … read somewhere about not going too low …

The red line represents the cut.

 

SUPER CROPPING QUESTION:

In response to Al Bud below … below is a good example of one of my plants with two strong tops (at 7 weeks old).  Would I just ‘pinch and twist’ them say, half way down from the top to where they divide?  Do I do it hard enough that they will lay down  … horizontal … 45 degrees?  Is there chance of screwing up and really hurting the plant if I do it wrong?  Will I lose the two top colas?  …I always thought the most bud would be on those.  Sorry … too many questions … this is all new to me and abit scary!

Edited Feb 8, 2012

WRONG                                                                       RIGHT?

 

Oooops!  Pinched the wrong place!

Added Feb 8, 2012:

Back to the cloning question, thanks Al.  I posted a picture below to show the plant better.  The only thing I can find on the plant that looks clonable is those colas.  I have looked much closer today and there are actually 10 of them (which includes the two tops).  They all stem off just above where a fan leaf leaves them main stem.  The bottom 2 are tiny (1.5-2 inches), and each set gets abit bigger that the last as you move up the plant.  There is no secondary growth off of them that even comes close … infact the only thing growing off of them are fan leaves with tiny little growth where they branch off the cola.  I can’t see how even several weeks will produce clonable outgrowth off of the main colas … can I use a couple of the small lower colas as a clone?  Seems to me that they will never become anything substantial anyway.

Can’t find any secondary growth off the main colas big enough, or with a “top”

Tiny lower colas

 

Edited Feb 10, 2012

So … my curiosity got he best of me and I decided to give Al’s supercropping a REAL try.  Big gulp!  Gave the tops a GOOD pinch until I felt a good crack … a little twist … see below!  The tops all lay down horizontal.  On a couple plants I did 4 colas.  I am not sure vwhat this will accomplish yet, but I am hoping it will slow vertical growth for a couple days at the least.  It was tough snapping my girls necks! lol

 

 

 

Max

30 thoughts on “Tips on Cloning?

  1. Allen Buddington says:

    Hello! Ive been a small place person befor.Ok first you going to have to wait a few weeks.So because you have to wait anyway do a “super crop” on all plants.To super crop pinch the stem above the last node or leaf set on top (looks like it would be 4th node),when pinching you will feel a crunch then twist a little,but not to much .Ater pinch top should look wilted and drooping.Ok now thats out of they way you will see top of plant stand back up in 4 hours to a few days,no problem.In a day or 2 you will see the lower branch’s growing(yeay succesful s.c.!!) they will grow to match the top of the plant!now you have 4+ main colas!!!(=more bud).And by 2 weeks you should have long enough 2ndary branch’s to clone !! Take a branch from the lowest part of the plant you can (the lower the more rooting hormon’s the better chance of survival of clone)cut at 45 d. angle and you off …peace .let me know if this helps..bong hits for all!!!!!

  2. Maxwell Turner says:

    Hey thanks Bud. I have never heard of the ‘pinch and twist’ technique to top a plant. I actually snipped the top right off last night, just about the tiny two sets I could see coming out just below. That should give me 2 main colas on top if I understand right. I hope for a super crop, but have a low ceiling. The max height a plant can get is 24 inches, so I think I need to start flowering at about 12 inches.

    How low on the plant can I go for a clone. Does it have to be at least a 7 leaf branch?

    Max

    • Allen Buddington says:

      Yea the pinch and twist,well the twist is more like a turn to make sure theres enough internal damage,.And its not topping its super croping.You leave the top and crunch it to force lower branching to be as long as the main cola’s
      tried to add pic hear but no good.lol.Anyway doing this and never cutting anything off of plant ,.How many sets of leaves are there left?And the stem you cut for your clone should have maybe 2 sets of leaves and and small top then trim your leaves down and OH !and something new i just learned .IS to cut your clone just below the leave lode and peel 1 of the leaves down to expose the skin a bit(less then an inch)..wish i could post you a few pics.
      And start flowering at 12″ if its a Indica ok but sitivas lowwer because they will streach ALOT when they go into flowering.

  3. Maxwell Turner says:

    Hey Bud, yeah I had seen a couple good vids on topping and ended up doing that before I read your post. I now have 2 leaf sets coming up on either side of the cut, so I’m hoping they are 2 colas!…? First grow, first top. They are a 70/30 indica/sativa, so I am hoping 24 inches will be their max if I flower at 12 … I can probably give a couple inches if I have to.

    I think I may have at least 3 weeks, so I have time. I am pretty sure the Mother will be my shortest plant (thickest stem, biggest leaves, most growth on the stem nodes by far) , so I will probably let that one get to 12 inches … if they other 2 are 14-15, I will have to deal with it (mostly a light distance problem).

    So … when I look at my plants, I can’t see a branch with 2 sets of leaves. maybe it is too early?. There are main branches that come from the stem (with huge leaves) and where they meet the stem, there are lots of little sets starting up but they are still small. Do I need to wait longer for those little branches along the stem to get larger and branch out?

    Lol, sorry if I ask dumb questions, but I just don’t know! :)

    Max

    • Allen Buddington says:

      Sorry so long to get back to ya ! but you’ll let those new branch’s get 4 to 6 inches ,so you can get a 3 ,4 inch clone.Make sure its long enough to get a node underground(for best results)but not nessasary.you a member of any site like Roll It Up.com?Iam there(allen bud).and i can up load pics and crap there and inform you better,and alot of grow pro friends there (subcool,Uncle ben…)
      I forget what site this is because the first to i responded was through facebook..lol…

  4. Maxwell Turner says:

    Hey Al, no worries. The notifications ended up going into my junk email so I missed your reply until now. I have read/viewed dozens of examples on cloning and think I have it mostly figured out. The problem I see is that in order to get 4 clones (my goal) I won’t have much of a mother left. The smaller undergrowth is not big enough and I am going to have to start flowering in 2-3 weeks max, so I don’t know if they will get big enough before then. I have 5-6 nice clone candidates on the plant I’d like to be the mother, but they are the main branches coming from the stem. Removing them will leave my mother quite bare … is it normal to sacrifice a plant (the mother) to get clones, or will it still produce good bud even though I have removed alot of it?

    Max

    • Weed Widow says:

      you shouldn’t have to kill mum to take some clones you are better of just taking a couple and growing a couple of these for mums patience is the key

    • Allen Buddington says:

      No you dont want to sacrifice mother.That would defeat your intentions (i think) of a prepetual grow.take 3 clones then in 4-6 weeks take 4 or 5 ,by then mom should be pretty bushy,and if you super crop all tops at a certain height you can keep it under your height reqierments,and promote more lowwer branch growth…
      for more clones or by then flowwer mom and have mundo budds! :-)

  5. Maxwell Turner says:

    Hey thanks guys! I have posted a couple more pics above to help me ask the right questions. Super cropping scares me … not sure if I want to try it my first time … but then again, might as well learn now. I do need the height growth to stop!

    • Allen Buddington says:

      HEY MAX ! looking good .If super croping goes wronge nothing will happen ,.The tops just wont flop and lowwer branching will be the same ,you cant hurt it much :-).Jst give a tight hard pinch just above the top set of leaves,and if it crunch’s and you can push it over and it looks wilting you got it! If you pinch and hear or feel no crunch,twist you fingers a little,like rolling hash on tip of fingers,and they will flop over.Dont worry you got nothing to loose and bud’;s to gain!Do it and post a pic of what it looks like and we will evaluate..You will see the plant recover quite quickly!!sometimes hours (no as good of a super crop)and sometimes a day! no worries brother. :-)

  6. Allen Buddington says:

    I just looked at yopur red lines for super crop and you have to go higher,pinch between the set of leaves that are 2 sets above your lines.As long as you can get your finger tips in there.Also the lines where you are going to take your clone looksw like a main cola.See the little branch’s starting on that cola?they look to be like an inch long.You nees to take a few of them when there a bit longer.I think I saw a few in an other pic that were big enough.I have to figure how to post a pic here .lol

  7. Maxwell Turner says:

    Thanks Al. I’ve posted more information above and indicated it with the date Feb 8, 2012. I tried to pinch 2 tops just abit (before I read your reply above … Doh!) and did it where my “first” red lines are above – I have a pic above. They are abit droopy … :(

    My plants are already too tall and I feel urgency to begin flowering … yesterday! I fear I will run out of room already. This is my first grow ever and I am sooooo eager to start seeing buds! I will be happy with even a moderate amount of bud. I think this time I will just go to flowering stage and I will experiment with super cropping next time.

    I have waited this long to see if I can get enough secondary growth to get a couple clones, but I just can’t see that happening … unless I can snip a couple of those small lower colas? Is that an option? Will they root?

    Thanks very much for introducing me to super cropping and your advice on cloning … btw I do have a profile on rollitup …

    Max

  8. Maxwell Turner says:

    I’m curious … all the videos I see on super cropping, bend the branches halfway down the branch and/or top and lay it flat to expose lower vegetation to the light. That seems different than what you are suggesting, just pinching off the top? Will pinching the top like you suggest stop vertical growth all together or just slow it down?

  9. Maxwell Turner says:

    Okay, so I actually ended up doing the super crop pinch on the 2 tops of my two tallest plants as Al suggested. Both tops got wilty and ‘flopped’ over on a 45 degree angle, but the next day they were standing upright again with a slight ‘crook’ in the stem. I think I did it right, but I’m not sure how that will help increase my bud amount … looks like I am where I was before I did it, with the exception of a slightly crooked stem now … ?

    Max

  10. Maxwell Turner says:

    After my ‘sort of’ try above and the quick recovery of the plants, I gained abit of confidence. So … I gave all tops a GOOD pinch (see pics above … date – Feb 10, 2012). I will keep them in veg abit longer and see what happens …

    Max

  11. Campo Cultivator says:

    Hey Max whats up
    The whole idea of super cropping is to encourage growing tips as many as possible especially if you are restricted to height and have plenty of floor m2
    I’ve been super cropping some white widow over the last 5 weeks and keeping her in veg they are now 2 feet high and 3 feet wide with about 100 plus growing tips per plant in effect gaining the same effect as scrogging without the mesh as we are growing in pots and scrogging is not a option with the ww I super cropped twice over about ten weeks but these are for my out door stuff and has a whole season to get substantial tip growth so will cope with a 100 plus tips (colas)indoors I would not have super cropped them to this extent
    I will tell you what Max I will write a article with photos over the next couple of days as I have some time now we have completed the led V hid trial
    I’ve been taking photos of the whole “super cropping as I felt it is a very useful tool to have in anyone’s growing arsenal
    the cannabis plant is a tough old plant and you can abuse the shit out of it as far as pruning and you get a stem infection (rot)and this is Quite rare
    on another note max I noticed on one of you photos some of the lower leaves were clawing like rams head can you post a couple of more pics Im worried you may have either overfed them at some stage or are over watering not sure no need to panic yet its just some early signs and that’s what we are here for help you through your first grow
    all said when are you thinking of starting the flowering cycle ? pretty soon I am guessing if I was you
    keep up the good work am enjoying following your first grow
    CC

  12. Maxwell Turner says:

    Hey Campo,

    Thanks for your reply! I am eager for info! Scrogging … is that when you “pinch/bend” a long branch in half … and super cropping is when you pinch the tops? I am trying to piece all this info/terminology together! lol Can you tell from my pics above (feb 10) if I did it correctly? How will this help me exactly?

    About the lower leaves “clawing” … I have been having this problem for several weeks! I have been quite concerned that the lower inside leaves are limpy and/or clawing. I can’t give details on my nutes … they were given to me by an “so-called experiencened” aquaintence. I have mixed them ‘weak’ if anything.

    For better pics, I have a weekly blog of my grow progress here: http://www.growersguidetocannabis.com/blog/2012/01/18/grapefruit-krush-fero-360-4g-led-lights/

    • Weed Widow says:

      Scrogging is a way of growing plants where you weave all growing tips through a (usually horizontal) screen until actual flowering starts. With this you get a sea of buds and is one of the best ways of getting grams/metre out of your room next to growing SOG (sea of green = many small plants flowered off). Both these methods create a horizontal canopy of green and lots of buds.
      They need to be done hydroponically because once the weave starts, the pots can’t be moved for watering.

      Super cropping is when you bend/pinch a long branch in half .. and I will do a piece on supercropping soon, I promise!

      Meristem pruning is when you pinch out the tip (ie remove the tip completely) which encourages the plant to produce 2 main stems. (see here)

  13. Campo Cultivator says:

    are you sure that you are not over watering max ? with experience you will know by the weight of the pot but for now here’s a useful tip which is pretty fool proof:
    1) get two pots the same as what you are growing with and fill with the same dry medium you’re using for the plants
    2) weigh one with some kitchen scales
    3) take the other and water until the water starts to creep out of the pot
    4) drain off until it it stops dripping, then weigh

    the difference in weight will equal the amount of water retained by the medium
    for example, if your dry pot weighs 4 kilos and the watered pot 5 kilos this is a difference of 1 kilo which converts to 1 Liter of water
    now next time you water wait until there is 25% or preferably less of water retained by the medium
    so for this example I would water when the pot weighs 4.25 kilos or less

    The weight of the plant is negligable at this stage (100g)

    Overwatering is an issue when growing under LED grow lights … for this reason I switched from soil to coco – perlite. Next time I suggest you do the same, or DWC (deep water culture) or any other type of hydroponic system such as NFT.

  14. Allen Buddington says:

    Hey all sorry takes so long for me to get back to you!Always good stuff from campo!
    And MAX yes use them little one’s .But by now the smaller one should be catching up and i hope top growth has slowwed?The pull down of the branch’s to expose the under growth is LST low stress training.And you will want to use that teq. also to controll your height .Looking very good for a first grow ..props !!

  15. Maxwell Turner says:

    Hey Al! My tallest plant has mostly recovered already with the colas growing at abit of an angle now instead of straight up, but the others all still lay horizontal. (Did I pinch them in the right spot?) The tops do look like they are trying to turn back up to the light a little bit. I noticed I actually broke the stem (nearly in half!) on one cola, so I have taped it together as good as I can … ooops! Some of the ‘immediately’ lower sprouts have more light exposure now, but I can’t see that they have changed that much … it’s only been 12 hours though.

    I also removed some lower fan leaves that were just hanging fairly limp-like and covering the lower colas from the light. Not too many … about 3-4 leaves on each plant.

    I have decided that I am not going to clone this time around for a couple reasons. 1.) Not sure if this is the strain I really want to end up with, 2.) I really don’t have a secondary grow area for vegging yet, 3.) My plants aren’t developed far enough to get decent clones other than removing some main colas. Next time, I will try take advantage of super cropping so I can increase my veg time.

    Thanks guys for all your advice!

    Max

  16. Maxwell Turner says:

    So just to update … on most of the colas, I pinched them in the right spot, just above 2 small sprouting colas. Now I have 3 colas. Two are still small, but growing rapidly, and the one I pinched is turning back up and has a brownish knuckle forming where I bent it. On a couple tops, I pinched with no real growth just below, so it didn’t do any real good.

    I am so glad I gave it a try because next time I will be ready and know abit better what I am doing … whew this has been a experimental first grow … stressful at times! lol

    Max

    • Allen Buddington says:

      No not realy to much stress.But if you can you can LST.SC during flower would deminish yeild,you got to keep her focused on flowering…:-)

  17. Maxwell Turner says:

    I thought so … I was actually asking for a friend. He is growing 2 plants the same strain as me and went to flowering 2 weeks ago (they are 14 weeks old). His problem is that the has a 4 footer (in a closet!) and he did not realize they will probably double in height. He has an 8 foot ceiling, but that will end up being a small tree … he was hoping he could super crop it after he saw my pics. I will tell him “not a good idea”!

    Max

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